15MIMutant Alberta Spruce

I have a 5ft Alberta Spruce that began to mutate at the top and now is begining to look like a common pine tree with long, thin branches. Do anyone know what causes this? Is it just something that happens somethings? Is there any way to get it to revert back to it's regular growth?

Grancru

050309020820 Wednesday, March 9 at 2:08 AM Grancru http://www.bar.com

18ORRE: Mutant Alberta Spruce

Grancru, it's called a "reversion" and is fairly common in older Alberta's. In fact, I think people have posted questions about reversions on Alberta's here 3 or 4 times in the last year. If you let it continue to grow, it will just be a big, wild-looking growth on your tree. To get rid of it, follow it down to wherever the mutated growth begins, and cut out just below that point. I'll let the genetic experts chime in about how these mutations occur... Susan

050309030915 Wednesday, March 9 at 3:09 AM SilverVista

3Picea pungens

I have a spot out in my front yard that would work very well for one of these but I am worried about the eventual size overwhelming the spot. The spot is about 12ftX12ft. It is bounded on the south by my driveway and on the east and west by the front sidewalk and the sidewalk to the front door. Can I stake this tree to about 7 feet and let it weep from there to limit the size? How wide will the skirt get? I will probably start with a 1 gal pot so it will be a long itme before I really have to worry about it but for once I want to think about the future.

050309215507 Wednesday, March 9 at 9:55 PM kvolk4Ut

15MIRE: Mutant Alberta Spruce

Thanks Susan. I will cut away even though it it going to seriously change the shape of the tree. It is one of 2 on each side of our front door sidewalk approch. I may just have to replace it. We'll see the finished product.

050309215826 Wednesday, March 9 at 9:58 PM Grancru

35Adrian, MIRE: Picea pungens

you are worried about overflowing a 12 x 12 spot starting with a one gal ...???

if you are 12 years old ... maybe ...

if you are over 40 and plan on being there for the next 30 years ... you might have a problem ....

the skirt can be trimmed to your liking ... and the height can be to your choice ...

here in z5, i am getting 3 to 6 inches a year ... pure sand .. free range, but for some water in drought ...take your 10 inch one gal ... and add up the growth from there ...

you have along time to go before you worry about it ... and a lot of enjoyment before then ...

ken

050309221205 Wednesday, March 9 at 10:12 PM ken_adrian

1110582964408odp6aCleveland, OHsugar pine seeds

i've been looking all over for these babies...suggestions are appreciated

thx

jerry

050311151606 Friday, March 11 at 3:16 PM jerry_t

1110610702680xkj9bSan FranciscoMonkey Puzzle

I love the Monkey Puzzle tree in Golden Gate Park. Are these easy to grow?

050311230003 Friday, March 11 at 11:00 PM Ellen

1110582964408odp10aSan Francisco, CARE: sugar pine seeds

Jerry,

You can get them at seedlings.com. They appear to be $15.99 for 50 seeds. To be honest, I haven't had good luck with these, though. I've tried to germinate 20-30 and only got one seedling, which was eventually overcome by mold.

Shoot

050314232116 Monday, March 14 at 11:21 PM Shoot http://www.seedlings.com

1110912603299svh9bSF CANorfolk Island pines in SF

Hi yall,

I've been looking around the city and noticing what I *think* are Norfolk island pines. They are tall and kind of "fluffy" looking with unusual needles. I will take a pic soon to share. I'm thinking about putting one in my backyard.

I have two questions for you folks: 1) are these in fact Norfolk island pines? 2) any cautions to help my new tree do well?

With love,

BuenaV

050315105016 Tuesday, March 15 at 10:50 AM BuenaV

1110912603299svh9bSan Francisco, CARE: Norfolk Island pines in SF

These are indeed Norfolk Island Pines, araucaria heterophylla. They do very well here--I've seen them up to at least 80 feet.

No real cautions except the usual. Don't amend the hole, etc.

P

050718110309 Monday, July 18 at 11:03 AM paulie

1110582964408odpSan Francisco, CARE: sugar pine seeds

Turns out you can buy these by the pound at F.W. Schumacher.

Shoot

050726130522 Tuesday, July 26 at 1:05 PM Shoot http://www.treeshrubseeds.com

1110912603299svh9bSan Francisco, CARE: Norfolk Island pines in SF

How about bunya-bunya? I've seen Shoot's posts on bunya-bunya but would be interested to hear if anybody out there has practical experience growing these in San Francisco.

Also, where can you get them?

Much love,

BuenaV

050726131004 Tuesday, July 26 at 1:10 PM BuenaV

1110582964408odp17929 Kiel WI 53042RE: sugar pine seeds

Hello:I am also trying to grow sugar pine from seed.On the subject of scarifacation,I found a research article from University of Idaho,there method for scarifacation was to line a coffe can with course sand paper and rollthe seed in it.This is the method I used.My seed has been stratifiying since 12-4-05 I have noticed very little mold,the few seed that showed mold I sanded the mold off them,since then no visible mold.Some seed are showing sign of germination.I am setting up my grow lights and propagation trays and will plant seed as they show sign of growth or by Feb 15-06.This should give seedlings a extra long growing season there seedling year.[this was also something mentioned in Idaho's growing scheme.I bought my seed from Scheffield.I hope to get 20-30 live trees and hope they will grow reasonably well in our climate.This looks like a nice place to share info on tree's, " Good luck" Anthony Bonde

060117075518 Tuesday, January 17 at 7:55 AM Anthony Bonde

1110582964408odp10aSan Francisco, CARE: sugar pine seeds

Anthony,

Thanks for your note. I just posted an update on my own efforts with sugar pine. I've had some success.

Basically, I found that scarification speeded up germination, but wasn't necessary. Most of my seeds germinated eventually when placed on damp coffee filters in a baggy in a warm, dark place.

I potted up 10 seedlings eventually, and three of these died due to disease (browning that affects the seed leaves first and eventually the main stem). Nevertheless, I still have seven healthy plants.

Shoot

060120120137 Friday, January 20 at 12:01 PM Shoot http://www.treedazzled.com/shoot/2006/01/sugar_pine_seed.html

1110582964408odp9bSan Francisco, CARE: sugar pine seeds

Anthony,

You say, "I hope to get 20-30 live trees and hope they will grow reasonably well in our climate."

Where are you? Reason I ask is, I might be able to give you 20-30 sugar pine seedlings for free, if you are in northern California. Let me know by reply on this forum.

060120121312 Friday, January 20 at 12:13 PM Ellen

1110582964408odp17929 Kiel WI 53042RE: sugar pine seeds

My first sugar pine is begining to sprout.Fingers crossed

060129195351 Sunday, January 29 at 7:53 PM Anthony Bonde

1110582964408odp17929 Kiel WI 53042RE: sugar pine seeds

Hello: Ellen thanks for the offer! But I live in eastern Wisconsin-zone 5-5b.

060129200307 Sunday, January 29 at 8:03 PM Anthony Bonde

1144605151976rcpDenverSugar Pine Seeds

90 days scarification for this seed is what is recommended but I tried the seed coat removal method and was suprised to see the seeds germinate within a week. A greenish mold like material appeared on the seed during germination. I'm not sure this mold is harmful or not. I cleaned the mold off one of the seeds and left it on another. The seed I cleaned the mold off had trouble dropping the large seed from the new tree. The seed was still solid and hard and the pine needles had touble emerging. I eventually removed the seed head myself to reveal the green needles within. The seed with the mold left intact seemed to soften the seed allowing the pine needles to burst through the seed. The mold seemed to only effect the seed and not the tree itself. The mold may be part of the seeds natural growing process from what I observed. I could not find any information on this subject anywhere on the net or library.

There is a lot of information on Blister Rust which effects Sugar Pines but reveals nothing about how it effects the seeds. Further observation is needed for me to form a definite conclusion but my intial observation seems to be that removal of the seed coat works great amd the mold seems to be helpful in the germination process.

If anyone knows any more information about the mold on Sugar Pines I'd like to hear about it.

060409105320 Sunday, April 9 at 10:53 AM Mike

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

The sugar pines with the mold left on eventually died. The sugar pines I kept clean are still thriving. After planting you have to keep running water over the trees until the seed head drops off to keep the mold under control. I cleaned the seeds at least once a day. This process seems to take between 1 and two weeks. I guess the mold in the natural enviroment is kept under control by rain.

060414180308 Friday, April 14 at 6:03 PM Mike

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

I planted a few more Sugar pine seeds without stratification and removing the seed coat. This time I plnted them outside in a large pot of high quality potting soil with the top one inch using a sterile seed starter mix. I used the top half of a soda bottle to cover the seeds to keep them moist. The seeds were subject to rain coming in from the soil from the sides because the soda top did not cover the entire pot. It was placed in a mostly shady spot only getting a couple hours of sun a day. It took about two weeks and both seedlings emerged very healthy and strong. There was no sign of mold the entire time. Yhe tempertures fluctuated between 38f and 70f during this time. It looks to me if you plant them indoors you will have to fight the mold. The mold seems ro remain under control when exposed to changing tempertures and a little sun.

060429140820 Saturday, April 29 at 2:08 PM Mike

1144605151976rcp10aSan Francisco, CARE: Sugar Pine Seeds

I'm impressed that you got the seed-coat removal method to work. I tried this method originally with a bad batch of seed, then realized that it really isn't necessary, since good seed germinates efficiently. BUT...my understanding is that removing the seed coat will speed up germination. And I am a very impatient guy. So perhaps I'll try that one again.

I think you are correct that a large amount of mold is a threat to the seedlings, but I'm not so sure that germinating the seeds indoors is an inherent problem. This seems unlikely. I can believe that the mold is encouraged by germination in a baggie, rather than in soil. I germinate my seeds in baggies and I always see mold, except when I've previously scarified with acid. Seeds that are scarified in this way, and that lack mold, yield trees that grow without any problem.

Now that we've got our seedlings...does anybody know if sugar pines have a dormancy requirement?

Shoot

060430214418 Sunday, April 30 at 9:44 PM Shoot

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

So far I've only done 6 seeds with the seed-coat removal method putting them under different conditions. I have another six seeds still under the 90 stratification waiting for that long period to be over before planting them. Every seed has germinated so far. I bought my seeds from Sheffield's Seed Co. The only trees from my experiment still living are the ones I placed outdoors. Both of theses trees seem to be doing very well, but these are my only two that germinated without any mold.

060501103540 Monday, May 1 at 10:35 AM Mike

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

I Couldn't wait the full 90 days stratification. I was too eager to get them started. So after 45 days I took the remainder of my seeds out of the refrigerator. I removed all the seed coats since this method seems to work very well with me. After that long in the fridge in damp potting soil the seed coats were easily removed with my fingers only. Most of the seeds have germinated now. I planted all of the seeds outdoors in clear plastic covered containers. No sign of mold on any of them. They seem to do well in full sun.

I planted California Red Fir at the same time as my Sugar Pines and didn't have any luck at all with removing the seed coat. About half the Red Fir trees germinated after 30 days stratification. They did equally well indoors as well as outdoors. None of the seeds germinated after removing the seed coat. The Red Fir seedlings seem to do well in full sun like the Sugar Pines.

060526225338 Friday, May 26 at 10:53 PM Mike

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

I read somewhere that you need to plant sugar pines in their permanent location after there first year. If you don't when you do finally plant the seedling it won't start growing again for 2 or 3 years.

060526225959 Friday, May 26 at 10:59 PM Mike

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

My sugar pines are doing well after 4 months. The largest is around 6 inches tall now. The SugarPines seem to grow better in larger pots. 5 gallon- 6 inches tall. 2 gallon- 3 inches tall. 1 gallon- less than 3 inches. I believe they need a lot of room for the tap root.

060825160819 Friday, August 25 at 4:08 PM Mike

1144605151976rcp10aSan Francisco, CARE: Sugar Pine Seeds

I think that you are on to something with the pot size argument.

My own sugar pines, raised from seed, are in one gallon pots and are only 4-5 inches tall after 18 months.

Two-year-old sugar pines that I obtained from the USDA Forest Service Placerville nursery, where they were grown in the ground, were about 10 inches at two years of age.

The confusing thing is that their root plugs were quite small and only perhaps six inches deep, which doesn't go with your tap root theory.

Now, after a few months in one gallon pots on my porch in San Francisco, the sugar pines from the nursery are about 10 inches tall and quite droopy. Probably this is due to a combination of insufficient light and too much nitrogen fertilizer. I have purchased a bunch of five-gallon pots, though, and will transfer them shortly.

I'll try to get some pictures up in the next week sometime.

Shoot

060828120257 Monday, August 28 at 12:02 PM Shoot

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

I really don't know why my sugar pines are larger in my 5 gallon containers. I just like to experiment and try creative ways to make my seedlings grow. This is my first try at sugar pines and I'll sum up what I've obseved with my batch of seeds. I know that other methods used for gowing these seeds may be better or more established but this is just my small scale experience. First, my location may be a factor. I live in Longmont, Colorado which is a zone 5. We have lots of sun and a very dry air. SugarPines can survive in this area but only with a little help.

The seeds I planted outdoors and with the seed coat removed had almost 90 percent success at germinating within two weeks of planting. I used a 1 gallon plastic pot with a plastic 2 liter coke bottle top as a cloche to protect the seeds from drying out. I used a combination of shredded bark, potting soil, sand, and perlite as my growing medium. The seeds I grew outdoors never had a mold problem as the seeds grown indoors did. The seedlings were placed in a mostly shady spot to keep the sun from cooking them under the plastic cloche. As soon as a seed germinated I placed them in individual pots of varying sizes using the same type soil they germunated in with a little slow release fertilizer thrown in. The seedlings were then exposed to full sun with no upper protection. The seedlings seemed to grow better in a larger pot. The seedling I have which is the largest is in a 5 gallon plastic pot placed in a redwood container for additional soil protection. I water this seddling almost everyday due to the hot sun and dry air. It is now over 6 inches tall at 4 months and very healthy looking. My winter experience with these trees will be very interesting I think.

060902165810 Saturday, September 2 at 4:58 PM Mike

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

To view photos of some of my Sugarpine seedlings go to http://mmoore688.photosite.com/

060915115114 Friday, September 15 at 11:51 AM Mike

1144605151976rcp10aSan Francisco, CARE: Sugar Pine Seeds

Mike, those are some hot pics! I love it.

I was captivated by the aspen that you apparently grew from a root cutting. I've read that aspens (unlike other poplars) are very difficult from cuttings and was reluctant to try root cuttings. I was worried about even finding a suitable root to cut. How did you do it?

Your sequoias are pretty. From the sheer number, it looks to me as if you are in danger of becoming obsessed. My first seedlings are about two feet tall now and will go into the environment in spring. I am nervous already.

And the sugar pines are cute. I think you'll be surprised at how they'll take off next year.

How do you plan to overwinter your seedlings?

Shoot

060919093151 Tuesday, September 19 at 9:31 AM Shoot

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

I was putting in a sprinkler system in my backyard and had to cut through some root from my large aspen tree. I used a root section that was about 3/4 inch thick amd about a foot long and cut it into 3 inch sections and placed it in potting soil. About 3 weeks later I had two small trees from 4 pots. I don't know why the other two did not grow.

I have a garden that my wife plants vegtables in. During the winter when my wife has no further use for the garden, I'll wrap the pots in weed liner to keep the worms from finding there way into my potted trees, dig several trenches, and place the pots into the ground. I'll push the garden soil around the pots to simulate in ground planting. This should prevent the roots from freezing. I'll then add a layer of mulch and compost around the plants to protect from the winter. When spring arrives I'll dig them all up and work the mulch and compost into the garden soil. I'm hoping this works as I haven't tried it yet.

060919144738 Tuesday, September 19 at 2:47 PM Mike

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

Shoot, After pondering about your comment on aspens being difficult to grow from root cuttings I looked around the web and can see where you got that. It looks like they are taking one length of root and growing multiple cuttings off the root then slicing them free of the root at a calculated size. This method does seem like a lot of work but gets a high volume of trees.

In my case I only grew one cutting per root section without removing the root. This method may not be comercially feasable but okay if you only want a few trees. I only had to place the root in the potting soil about an inch deep and water it. I treated my root sections just like a seed and got about the same results as if they were seeds. Some grew and some did not.

060923165908 Saturday, September 23 at 4:59 PM Mike

1144605151976rcpRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

My seedlings just went thru a major cold spell (6 below 0F) and they all are doing fine. The trees totally exposed to the weather (pots buried in the ground to simulate planting) were completely covered with snow. The snow has begun to melt as day time temps reach into the 40sF exposing the top of the seedlings and they all appear healthy. The average night time temp is around 19F again which is the normal temp for this time of season. I believe the snow cover was the major factory in protecting the trees during the extreme cold. In the absence of snow during the next frigid freeze I may use tarp to temporarily cover the tress.

061208165546 Friday, December 8 at 4:55 PM Mike

1176857576080lutGiant Sequoia

These trees are amazing!!

070417175413 Tuesday, April 17 at 5:54 PM Jodee Pendergraft

1144605151976rcpLongmont, CORE: Sugar Pine Seeds

Trees made it thru winter ok for the most part. The weak scrawny trees had problems.

The temperature reached up to 10 below 0 and that had me worried but had no lasting effect on the seedlings. Lots of snow helped. Who says these trees can't survive in Colorado zone 5. See my winter protection method and spring picks at:

http://MMoore688.photosite.com

Pictures uploaded on April 18, 2007.

070418195048 Wednesday, April 18 at 7:50 PM Mike http://MMoore688.photosite.com

1190361519250nhboakland, caGiant Sequoia Seedlings

Been trying to grow these from seed collected from trees growing in the bay area in people's yards and parks. What is the germination rate, how hard are they to get to germinate, and is stratification really THAT necessary? After a trip to yosemite I realized how hard it is for these things to sprout in the wild. THere were TONS of white fir and incense cedar shooting up like weeds, but I only counted four or five young giant sequoias that were below waste level. These things were on their way out in terms of the evolutionary table before humans began cultivating them, it seems.

070921005848 Friday, September 21 at 12:58 AM Joey Alone

1194280383890tohGrowing giant sequoias outside US

I live outside U.S. but I’ve been there a few times, on vacation, and enjoyed very much. I like nature and became very impressed when I first saw some sequoia trees at Yosemite Park.

Although most of my country has a warm climate, the southernmost state (where I was born) has some areas with reasonably low temperature (little snow sometimes) and I decided to try growing some giant sequoias there.

My problem is that I never thought of getting some sequoia seeds when I was in California and now I’m looking for a non-expensive way to do this.

I hope I get some seeds from this forum but if anyone knows a better way to do this I’d appreciate some advice.

Best regards,

Geraldo M. Daudt

P.S.: My apologies for my poor grammar – that is all I got by now...

071105073309 Monday, November 5 at 7:33 AM Geraldo

1176857576080lutWIRE: Giant Sequoia

I am anxious to try growing these seeds.

080103234346 Thursday, January 3 at 11:43 PM Firesglow

1144605151976rcp5awiRE: Sugar Pine Seeds

I like Sugar pines.

080205121324 Tuesday, February 5 at 12:13 PM liz

1202488259991nchlouisiana

i love to grow plants

080208083126 Friday, February 8 at 8:31 AM kathryn

1202915916703eaoAudubon tree guide

I purchased this book last year and it's a good read. Very informative! I am now very skilled at dendrology. I know every tree in my biome.

080213071722 Wednesday, February 13 at 7:17 AM Adam

1203259774171tecMarana, Az 85653

Love to work out doors and enjoy watching what has been planted grow and show off your handiwork to the neighborhood. Live on 4 acres.

080217064942 Sunday, February 17 at 6:49 AM Mary Skokan

1203531816747ljqCONIFERS

THESE TREES ARE BEAUTIFUL. I CAN'T WAIT TO PLANT ONE!!

080220102345 Wednesday, February 20 at 10:23 AM christy

1204212107340ytxNatchezMarketing Coordinator

The opportunity to receive seeds will help to revitalize the farming industry by supporting small farmers and limited resource families.

080228072214 Thursday, February 28 at 7:22 AM HELEN

1205220818232kpdTewksbury, Ma

trees drink CO2

080311003348 Tuesday, March 11 at 12:33 AM Alan

1206507532072eukMinnesota

I remember when I was just a little kid my sisters and I planted a pine tree each next to the house. We watched them grow as we got older and it was a great experience.

080325195859 Tuesday, March 25 at 7:58 PM Julie Consoer

1203531816747ljqPARE: CONIFERS

How long after seeds are planted will I see growth? Special care needed?

080402101518 Wednesday, April 2 at 10:15 AM Becki

1203531816747ljqRE: CONIFERS

In what zone do Conifers grow the best?

080411183938 Friday, April 11 at 6:39 PM Hilary Heffron

1203531816747ljqhot springs, ArRE: CONIFERS

I love all the links.

080517212209 Saturday, May 17 at 9:22 PM paula

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